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Jun 14 21:06:32 <regedit>	hello
Jun 14 21:06:50 <lotuspsychje>	regedit: welcome, what can we do for you?
Jun 14 21:06:54 <regedit>	i am consistently failing to setup a dual boot Windows + Ubuntu
Jun 14 21:07:03 <lotuspsychje>	!dualboot | regedit
Jun 14 21:07:03 <ubottu>	regedit: Dual boot instructions: x86/AMD64: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DualBoot/Windows - Macs: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookPro https://help.ubuntu.com/community/YabootConfigurationForMacintoshPowerPCsDualBoot
Jun 14 21:07:06 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: why that is so kind of you good sir :)
Jun 14 21:07:51 <lotuspsychje>	regedit: is your machine an uefi system?
Jun 14 21:08:10 <regedit>	here is my most latest boot-repair output: paste.ubuntu.com/11716231
Jun 14 21:08:18 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: aha, bulls-eye question
Jun 14 21:08:21 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: well
Jun 14 21:08:35 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: my BIOS is set to UEFI enabled
Jun 14 21:08:44 <regedit>	and Windows installs fine
Jun 14 21:08:55 <regedit>	however during ubuntu installation i get a strange error
Jun 14 21:09:19 <regedit>	something to the effect of "...it looks like the other OS on this machine was installed with legacy BIOS and not UEFI..." wtf?
Jun 14 21:09:23 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: ^
Jun 14 21:09:36 <lotuspsychje>	!uefi | regedit
Jun 14 21:09:37 <ubottu>	regedit: UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI
Jun 14 21:12:02 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: if I installed windows from a USB drive, does that not prove that I have UEFI working?
Jun 14 21:12:29 <lotuspsychje>	regedit: make your life easy and single install ubuntu :p
Jun 14 21:13:09 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: if only Unity engine editor worked on Linux......
Jun 14 21:14:02 <regedit>	why does the ubuntu installation think I installed Windows without UEFI?
Jun 14 21:17:39 <regedit>	lotuspsychje: how about this: during ubuntu installation, when i configure Ubuntu to install on the 2nd partition (at the bottom of that screen) and it asks me where to install the boot loader or something, what am i actually supposed to choose?
Jun 14 21:18:24 <lotuspsychje>	regedit: read the uefi link mate
Jun 14 21:18:58 <regedit>	alright alright i'll actually read something for once...
Jun 14 21:18:59 <regedit>	:P
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Jun 14 23:35:37 <EriC^^>	regedit: ok, type ls -l /sys/firmware/efi
Jun 14 23:36:03 <regedit>	EriC^^: ok, there are some files listed
Jun 14 23:36:25 <DWSR>	regedit: http://www.eightforums.com/installation-setup/25561-windows-8-install-uefi-mode.html <-- links for Windows 7 and 8 are in the second or third post down
Jun 14 23:36:31 <EriC^^>	regedit:
Jun 14 23:37:11 <EriC^^>	regedit: boot into ubuntu normally, and not the live usb
Jun 14 23:37:22 <regedit>	EriC^^: this particular time round, i tried installing them both in legacy mode (i had read that that could help), still no luck i guess
Jun 14 23:37:26 <EriC^^>	regedit: you probably need to make a custom entry for windows and you'll be good
Jun 14 23:38:23 <EriC^^>	regedit: when you installed both in uefi mode, only ubuntu booted?
Jun 14 23:38:51 <regedit>	EriC^^: yup, DWSR seems to be of the opinion that windows did not in fact install as UEFI mode
Jun 14 23:39:22 <EriC^^>	regedit: it could be so, also the warning message and all, ubuntu is pretty good at picking up the windows .efi file
Jun 14 23:40:05 <regedit>	so i'm currently reading through the page DWSR linked, see what gives...
Jun 14 23:40:25 <EriC^^>	regedit: do you want to reinstall in uefi? or fix it as it is?
Jun 14 23:40:38 <regedit>	i dont mind resinstalling in UEFI
Jun 14 23:41:47 <EriC^^>	regedit: ok, try to use the live usb right now to create a gpt partition table
Jun 14 23:42:48 <EriC^^>	regedit: type sudo gdisk /dev/sdb
Jun 14 23:43:56 <EriC^^>	regedit: you there?
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Jun 14 23:50:30 <regedit>	whoops, bad connection over qwebirc...
Jun 14 23:50:57 <regedit>	EriC^^ / DWSR did I miss anything?
Jun 14 23:51:05 <regedit>	oh did DWSR disconnect
Jun 14 23:51:26 <EriC^^>	regedit: i was saying you could make a fresh gpt partition first, then try installing windows in uefi mode
Jun 14 23:51:42 <EriC^^>	regedit: are you in the live usb?
Jun 14 23:52:12 <regedit>	EriC^^: yes i am now in live USB, and I think BIOS is currently UEFI enabled, I *think*....
Jun 14 23:53:53 <EriC^^>	regedit: ok, do you need any data on the hdd?
Jun 14 23:54:04 <regedit>	EriC^^: nope
Jun 14 23:54:32 <EriC^^>	regedit: ok, type sudo parted -l | nc termbin.com 9999
Jun 14 23:55:00 <regedit>	EriC^^: http://termbin.com/qs6j
Jun 14 23:57:08 <regedit>	EriC^^: if I understand correctly i also have some steps to take for installing windows as UEFI http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/15458-uefi-bootable-usb-flash-drive-create-windows.html
Jun 14 23:58:57 <EriC^^>	regedit: type sudo gdisk /dev/sdb
Jun 14 23:59:53 <regedit>	EriC^^: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11716907/
Jun 15 00:00:26 <EriC^^>	regedit: press "o"
Jun 15 00:01:21 <regedit>	EriC^^: This option deletes all partitions and creates a new protective MBR. Proceed? (Y/N) I'm guessing confirm? :)
Jun 15 00:01:49 <regedit>	EriC^^: i won't confirm confirmations with you from this point onward, if that works better
Jun 15 00:05:06 <EriC^^>	regedit: no, confirming is fine
Jun 15 00:05:14 <EriC^^>	regedit: yes press ok to create a new protective mbr
Jun 15 00:05:20 <regedit>	EriC^^: OK then :) Command (? for help):
Jun 15 00:06:59 <regedit>	EriC^^: Final checks complete. About to write GPT data. THIS WILL OVERWRITE EXISTING PARTITIONS!! Do you want to proceed? (Y/N):
Jun 15 00:07:09 <EriC^^>	regedit: yes
Jun 15 00:07:47 <regedit>	EriC^^: OK; writing new GUID partition table (GPT) to /dev/sdb. Warning: The kernel is still using the old partition table. The new table will be used at the next reboot. The operation has completed successfully.
Jun 15 00:09:25 <EriC^^>	regedit: ok, reboot and try to install windows
Jun 15 00:10:39 <EriC^^>	regedit: make sure uefi is selected in the bios, and btw how are you installing windows? from usb?
Jun 15 00:12:17 <regedit>	EriC^^: good questions, yes USB drive. Actually I need to rewrite the USB drive again now... might need to boot back into ubuntu live for that...
Jun 15 00:13:11 <EriC^^>	regedit: are you using a live usb for ubuntu? or cd?
Jun 15 00:13:12 <regedit>	EriC^^: I have the ISO / files of the Windows installation on an external drive, I need to put it on a USB now, should be straightforward from within ubuntu live?
Jun 15 00:13:23 <regedit>	EriC^^: live USB
Jun 15 00:13:50 <regedit>	EriC^^: short on devices here, currently it has ubuntu on it, i need to write windows to it...
Jun 15 00:14:22 <regedit>	EriC^^: i do have nother internal drive though, but I may have just wiped it now too
Jun 15 00:15:09 <regedit>	EriC^^: apparently there's more to it http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/15458-uefi-bootable-usb-flash-drive-create-windows.html
Jun 15 00:15:24 <EriC^^>	regedit: yeah, it's not that straightforward
Jun 15 00:15:42 <EriC^^>	regedit: i've never done it myself but i was going to once
Jun 15 00:17:29 <EriC^^>	regedit: it should be ok
Jun 15 00:20:17 <EriC^^>	B0g4r7: regedit is
Jun 15 00:20:33 <regedit>	oh thanks!
Jun 15 00:21:36 <regedit>	EriC^^: rebooting into ubuntu live to write the windows stuff to the drive, hope i survive this... :)
Jun 15 00:21:52 <EriC^^>	regedit: :)
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Jun 15 00:58:38 <regedit>	uh, new to formatting under linux here, how do i know which sd** is the disk i'm trying to format with mkdosfs ?
Jun 15 00:59:34 <regedit>	daftykins: currently the drive is NTFS and contains that file structure, but can't seem to boot to it...
Jun 15 00:59:57 <regedit>	daftykins: does it specifically need to be FAT?
Jun 15 00:59:59 <daftykins>	regedit: because it's not FAT
Jun 15 01:00:03 <regedit>	ok then
Jun 15 01:00:16 <Bashing-om>	regedit: Linix terminal command ' sudo fdisk -lu ' and look at the disk size . Is 1 way .
Jun 15 01:00:29 <regedit>	Bashing-om: thanks! will try that
Jun 15 01:01:22 <EriC^^>	regedit: you'll want sudo parted -l cause you're converted to gpt now
Jun 15 01:01:36 <regedit>	oh
Jun 15 01:03:44 <Bashing-om>	regedit: Yeah, 'fdisk' will not handle GPT partitioning .
Jun 15 01:03:45 <regedit>	sudo mkdosfs /dev/sdc -s 16 -F 32
Jun 15 01:03:49 <regedit>	^ looks right? ^
Jun 15 01:04:38 <EriC^^>	regedit: why the -s 16?
Jun 15 01:05:05 <regedit>	EriC^^: copy pasted from askubuntu... i'm new at this as you can tell
Jun 15 01:05:17 <regedit>	ObrienDave: oh, ok, le'me look that up. thanks
Jun 15 01:06:11 <EriC^^>	regedit: wait, did you make a partition first?
Jun 15 01:06:39 <regedit>	EriC^^: the drive is currently NTFS and has the windows installation files, but not booting
Jun 15 01:06:57 <regedit>	EriC^^: make a partition - where / what about?
Jun 15 01:07:01 <EriC^^>	regedit: how'd they get there?
Jun 15 01:07:20 <regedit>	EriC^^: this is the drive i'd like to use as the source for installing windows
Jun 15 01:07:45 <regedit>	i.e. the install usb drive
Jun 15 01:07:57 <regedit>	there is another internal drive that's supposed to be the destination
Jun 15 01:09:13 <regedit>	EriC^^: for now daftykins
Jun 15 01:09:13 <regedit>	:D
Jun 15 01:09:41 <regedit>	i am a troglodyte
Jun 15 01:10:13 <EriC^^>	regedit: ok, well you have to make an efi partition of the type ef00
Jun 15 01:10:57 <EriC^^>	regedit: use gparted to make some unallocated space preferrably at the end of a partition cause it's easier and faster
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Jun 15 01:14:39 <regedit>	whoops network dropped again, stupid qwebirc
Jun 15 01:14:56 <regedit>	i'm in gparted and dont mind deallocating the whole drive in question
Jun 15 01:15:00 <regedit>	should i do that?
Jun 15 01:15:16 <regedit>	so i dont actually format the EFI stuff inside gparted?
Jun 15 01:15:52 <regedit>	ok so in gparted i'll format the whole drive to FAT (16 or 32?)
Jun 15 01:16:23 <regedit>	ye i have it on yet another extarnal drive
Jun 15 01:17:46 <regedit>	ok done, now copying over the files...
Jun 15 01:21:38 <regedit>	alright then, i guess all that's left now is to try booting into it, and hope that if it fails i still get to boot into ubuntu live...
Jun 15 01:22:15 <regedit>	i should unmount the FAT32?
Jun 15 01:23:00 <regedit>	did kubuntu eject
Jun 15 01:23:32 <regedit>	alright here goes... if i dont come back, its either very good news or very bad news. if i come back soon, its bad news
Jun 15 01:23:34 <regedit>	:D
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Jun 15 02:58:34 <regedit>	EriC^^ ? dayangkun ?
Jun 15 02:59:41 <regedit>	well well well, some things have finally gone right this time round :)
Jun 15 03:00:31 <regedit>	i am able to boot to windows and to ubuntu
Jun 15 03:00:38 <EriC^^>	regedit: by dayangkun you mean daftykins?
Jun 15 03:01:03 <regedit>	EriC^^: heya :D oh i guess so
Jun 15 03:01:56 <EriC^^>	regedit: ok, that's great that windows is booting and so is ubuntu
Jun 15 03:01:57 <regedit>	EriC^^: i would really love to record the lessons learned here: what were those magic GPT steps you made me do, and why did they help (along with the FAT32 windows install drive with the EFI files)
Jun 15 03:03:48 <EriC^^>	regedit: well uefi can't be installed in legacy(msdos) partition tables, it might have helped if windows decides to install in legacy if it finds a msdos partition table, anyways the command was sudo parted -l to get the disk then sudo gdisk /dev/sdX , then press "o" then "w"
Jun 15 03:04:31 <EriC^^>	regedit: i think what you did with daftykins was made fat32 partition and copy all the files over, the command is mkfs.fat -F 32 /dev/sdxY
Jun 15 03:05:00 <EriC^^>	regedit: after you create a partition first using gparted
Jun 15 03:06:23 <regedit>	EriC^^: i think i did both partitioning and fat32 formatting within gparted
Jun 15 03:06:38 <EriC^^>	regedit: oh ok
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Jun 15 03:39:14 <regedit>	:( seems even konversation can't save me from a simply bad wifi connection...
Jun 15 03:39:32 <regedit>	did i miss anything EriC^^
Jun 15 03:40:31 <regedit>	EriC^^:  i was asking "...So this gdisk thing, why was it necessary? What did it do which finally helped everything be EFI? And what does "GPT" whatever that is have to do with it?"
Jun 15 03:40:35 <regedit>	so many questions
Jun 15 03:41:13 <EriC^^>	regedit: i told you already
Jun 15 03:41:30 <EriC^^>	regedit: well uefi can't be installed in legacy(msdos) partition tables, it might have helped if windows decides to install in legacy if it finds a msdos partition table, anyways the command was sudo parted -l to get the disk then sudo gdisk /dev/sdX , then press "o" then "w"
Jun 15 03:42:01 <regedit>	so it does something about legacy(msdos) partition tables?
Jun 15 03:42:37 <EriC^^>	regedit: gpt is a partition table type, like msdos, except it's newer and can have a lot more primary partitions and have bigger partitions (+2TB)
Jun 15 03:43:28 <EriC^^>	regedit: that command makes a fresh gpt partition table, you had a msdos one
Jun 15 03:43:55 <regedit>	EriC^^: how might one opt for that kind of partitioning configuration if only in Windows world (without gdisk) ? Or does that force usage of lageacy(msdos) partition tables
Jun 15 03:44:12 <TJ->	regedit: Disk drives usually have data written to them in multiple partitions. Those partitions are defined in a partition table at the start of the disk. Originally 4 partitions were thought to be sufficient and were stored in 64 bytes in the first sector (of 512 bytes) called the Master Boot Record (MBR). Later we needed more partitions on a disk and introduced Extended Partitions where MBR could chain several partition tables together. That got to be a mess, so
Jun 15 03:44:38 <EriC^^>	regedit: you can have gpt partitions in windows, i think the command diskpart in windows can let you do that, not sure
Jun 15 03:45:07 <regedit>	EriC^^: ahh ok makes sense
Jun 15 03:45:17 <regedit>	and TJ- that was awesome thanks!
Jun 15 03:46:03 <TJ->	regedit: The UEFI standards require a disk to use GPT and to have a special partition (the EFI System Partition - ESP) containing all the boot-loaders, drivers, and tools (such as the UEFI shell) that the motherboard firmware will need/use
Jun 15 03:46:51 <regedit>	ahaa i see... things are starting to make sense now
Jun 15 03:47:33 <regedit>	might there be a "for noobs" wiki page explaining all this? i could really have used it just 2 days ago... then again i could have just googled for it a bit more...
Jun 15 03:48:16 <regedit>	so back in msdos land, i had like, 1 partition per partition. But once I started installing windows after configuring GPT, suddenly there was like whoa 4 partitions already; System something, EFI something, something something, and only then my actual partition
Jun 15 03:48:19 <TJ->	regedit: To provide backward compatibility a disk can have both MBR (in sector 0) and GPT (in sector 1) on the same disk. This is usually called a GPT disk with Hybrid or Protective MBR
Jun 15 03:48:37 <regedit>	interesting
Jun 15 03:48:51 <regedit>	i wonder if I did that? or is it all GPT now
Jun 15 03:49:09 <TJ->	regedit: Microsoft went overboard with their allocation of partitions when they adopted GPT - not sure why, it was mostly unnecessary
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Jun 15 03:50:16 <TJ->	regedit: The different between a hybrid and Protective MBR is, the latter has 1 partition defined which covers the entire disk so that tools that don't know about GPT partitions will think the entire disk is already in use and won't try to create MBR partitions that would wipe out existing data
Jun 15 03:50:53 <TJ->	Whoops! we overloaded regedit with data :)
Jun 15 03:51:14 <histo>	!partition | regedit
Jun 15 03:51:14 <ubottu>	regedit: For help with partitioning a new install see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PartitioningSchemes l - For partitioning programs see !GParted, or !PartitionManager (!Kubuntu 9.04 and up) - Other partitioning topics include !fstab !home and !swap
Jun 15 03:51:43 <ObrienDave>	poor regedit ;P
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Jun 15 03:53:53 <regedit>	wait what happened, didnt realize i got disconnected
Jun 15 03:53:57 <regedit>	i was yappin on
Jun 15 03:54:44 <TJ->	regedit: The different between a hybrid and Protective MBR is, the latter has 1 partition defined which covers the entire disk so that tools that don't know about GPT partitions will think the entire disk is already in use and won't try to create MBR partitions that would wipe out existing data
Jun 15 03:55:57 <TJ->	regedit: Hybrid MBR allows use of the other 3 primary MBR partitions to map directly onto 3 of the GPT partitions (using the same starting sector number and quantity of sectors) so that both MBR and GPT tools can 'see' those 3 partitions.
Jun 15 03:56:12 <Bashing-om>	regedit: TJ-'s most excellent tutorial on booting : https://iam.tj/kb/pc/boot/#a_bootloader .
Jun 15 03:56:30 <regedit>	TJ-: knowledge overflow :p
Jun 15 03:57:45 <regedit>	so does any of this explain why i dont have BIOS setup anymore?
Jun 15 03:58:34 <TJ->	regedit: BIOS was replaced by UEFI but its' all firmware on the motherboard - just they implement different public interfaces (APIs) that the boot-loaders need to talk to
Jun 15 03:59:37 <TJ->	regedit: UEFI adds a lot of powerful extensibility such as being able to load device drivers before the operating system is started which is especially useful for *big* server systems
Jun 15 03:59:40 <regedit>	TJ-: so for example how might i switch Virtualization now that i converted to UEFI?
Jun 15 04:00:27 <TJ->	regedit: enable the VT extensions of the CPU, you mean? On AMD they should be enabled by default. On Intel CPUs the firmware should provide an option to do that
Jun 15 04:00:36 <regedit>	^ my entire day accurately reduced to a nutshell
Jun 15 04:01:04 <regedit>	TJ-: well until now i used to switch it on in BIOS, what do i do now?
Jun 15 04:01:05 <EriC^^>	that's what regedit wants to know
Jun 15 04:02:04 <regedit>	and ^ what EriC^^ said
Jun 15 04:02:06 <TJ->	regedit: UEFI should still provide a Setup menu - in many firmwares you can barely tell the difference between BIOS and UEFI although some desktop motherboards have a GUI based Setup 
Jun 15 04:02:44 <TJ->	regedit: Usually you press F2 or similar at power-on, the screen should show a hint as to what key to press
Jun 15 04:02:51 <regedit>	TJ-: i cant seem to reach this setup menu anymore :( used to be Fn+F2, which now does nothing
Jun 15 04:03:11 <TJ->	regedit: What make/model is the PC?
Jun 15 04:03:27 <regedit>	TJ-: Fn+F12 would always show BIOS boot menu. currently still works, except the additional option to go to bios setup - disappeared!
Jun 15 04:03:45 <regedit>	TJ-: Lenovo IdeaPad U410 (non Touch)\
Jun 15 04:04:38 <TJ->	regedit: Did you enable Fastboot? If so, I believe there's a special sequence in Windows to disable that so you can enter Setup again
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Jun 15 04:05:21 <TJ->	regedit: have you read page 39 of the user manual?
Jun 15 04:06:44 <TJ->	In case I've gone when regedit returns, from the manual: "To start the BIOS setup utility:" "Press the Novo button and then select BIOS Setup."
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Jun 15 04:07:15 <TJ->	regedit: from the manual: "To start the BIOS setup utility:" "Press the Novo button and then select BIOS Setup."
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Jun 15 04:08:10 <regedit>	connection keeps dropping...
Jun 15 04:08:41 <regedit>	TJ-: i dont remember there being an option about that, it was a very minimal phoenix bios setup
Jun 15 04:09:07 <regedit>	TJ-: no mention of speed bootup or anything like that that i can remember
Jun 15 04:10:52 <regedit>	TJ-: actually the manufacturer did publish a BIOS fix to "fix BIOS not being accessible after using windows recovery" which might be relevant. I did try installing it in the past and failed, but then again i didnt have UEFI/GPT setup correctly either...
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Jun 15 04:12:13 <TJ->	regedit: Ahhhh... now that is sounding more like it ... bug in the firmware. Can you install that update now you've repaired Windows?
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Jun 15 04:12:55 <regedit>	am i the only one being dropped from freenode all this time?...
Jun 15 04:13:13 <Ben64>	regedit: you're quitting
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Jun 15 04:15:08 <regedit>	so what if my wifi is unstable? just hold on another few seconds...
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Jun 15 04:27:34 <regedit>	TJ-: so uh, any clues about my BIOS setup?
Jun 15 04:28:41 <TJ->	regedit: Ahhhh... now that is sounding more like it ... bug in the firmware. Can you install that update now you've repaired Windows?
Jun 15 04:29:00 <TJ->	regedit: I think you've got update the firmware to fix it
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Jun 15 04:36:29 <regedit>	TJ-: dayum this is my wifi bad luck day. i was linking this list look for BIOS http://support.lenovo.com/sg/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/ideapad-u-series-laptops/ideapad-u410?c=1
Jun 15 04:38:05 <TJ->	regedit: That looks like the fix: https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/mobiles/bios_readme_u310_u410.txt
Jun 15 04:38:24 <TJ->	regedit: The update for Windows 8, not the one for Windows 7
Jun 15 04:38:45 <TJ->	regedit: version 65CN99WW
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Jun 15 04:43:55 <regedit>	TJ-: yep that is the exact BIOS up that's not behaving right
Jun 15 04:44:12 <regedit>	did you get my message about how it installs? *
Jun 15 04:44:38 <regedit>	BIOS *update
Jun 15 04:44:40 <TJ->	regedit: No I didn't
Jun 15 04:44:58 <regedit>	this is where i got it from http://support.lenovo.com/sg/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/ideapad-u-series-laptops/ideapad-u410?c=1
Jun 15 04:45:23 <TJ->	regedit: Yes... i got that and sent you 3 messages about it
Jun 15 04:45:25 <TJ->	regedit: version 65CN99WW
Jun 15 04:45:31 <TJ->	regedit: That looks like the fix: https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/mobiles/bios_readme_u310_u410.txt
Jun 15 04:46:02 <regedit>	yes i took the Windows 8.1 x64 version, is that not the same?
Jun 15 04:46:24 <TJ->	regedit: Yes... did it install?
Jun 15 04:46:56 <regedit>	i run it, it immediately seems to try flashing without any confirmation, immediately restarts the system (without asking!..), power cycle occurs, and then nothing - black screen
Jun 15 04:47:05 <regedit>	until i give up and hard reboot
Jun 15 04:47:14 <regedit>	and pray the system isnt fried
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Jun 15 04:48:42 <TJ->	regedit: OK, that's certainly not correct. Since you reinstalled Windows have you installed *all* the Lenovo specific drivers too? I bet 1 of those is needed to access the firmware to upgrade it
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Jun 15 04:50:31 <TJ->	regedit: OK, that's certainly not correct. Since you reinstalled Windows have you installed *all* the Lenovo specific drivers too? I bet 1 of those is needed to access the firmware to upgrade it
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Jun 15 04:52:14 <regedit>	TJ-: actually not yet, will try. Are youuuu on for much longer today/night?
Jun 15 04:52:48 <TJ->	regedit: it's 04:53 and I'm off to bed :)
Jun 15 04:53:00 <regedit>	TJ-: alright, thanks a ton for all the help!
Jun 15 04:54:32 <TJ->	regedit: OK, that's certainly not correct. Since you reinstalled Windows have you installed *all* the Lenovo specific drivers too? I bet 1 of those is needed to access the firmware to upgrade it
Jun 15 04:54:52 <regedit>	TJ-: actually not yet, will try
Jun 15 04:55:22 <regedit>	TJ-: so like, without chipset or video driver the BIOS flash wont work?
Jun 15 04:55:51 <TJ->	regedit: I'd bet one of those packages contains motherboard specific drivers to access the firmware interface
Jun 15 04:56:10 <regedit>	i somehow doubt it, since earlier today i did have most drivers installed (including chipset) and the flash still didnt go
Jun 15 04:56:20 <regedit>	but ill try
Jun 15 04:56:32 <TJ->	regedit: Look in the Windows Event Log for clues as to why it crashes
Jun 15 04:57:03 <regedit>	some of those lenovo packages are broken BTW, dont extract/install correctly etc...
Jun 15 04:57:17 <TJ->	regedit: That doesn't sound good
Jun 15 04:58:42 <regedit>	TJ-: might chipset directly from Intel be better than the one offered by manufacturer?
Jun 15 05:06:20 <TJ->	regedit: have you seen this? http://support.lenovo.com/sg/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/ideapad-u-series-laptops/ideapad-u410/documents/HT101636?tabName=Solutions
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Jun 15 05:13:02 <regedit>	TJ-: oh cool, does an equivalent exist for linux/ubuntu?
Jun 15 05:13:41 <TJ->	regedit: The OS reboot-into-setup? No, I doubt it, although I bet it just flips a couple of bits in the firmware nv-ram
Jun 15 05:14:10 <regedit>	TJ-: no i mean a way to view bios version
Jun 15 05:14:32 <regedit>	TJ-: also, by step 10 on that page, it used to say Setup, now that option has disappeared
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Jun 15 05:16:13 <regedit>	version is 65CN13WW, thanks EriC^^
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Jun 15 05:18:50 <TJ->	regedit: to view firmware version without tools you can also do: dmesg | grep DMI
Jun 15 05:19:20 <regedit>	hm indeed
Jun 15 05:20:04 <TJ->	regedit: good luck with that, I'm off for a final kernel test before sleep
Jun 15 05:20:14 <regedit>	k rebooting to windows to try and flash that bios
Jun 15 05:20:19 <regedit>	cheers TJ-thanks again
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Jun 16 18:10:57 <histo>	regedit: he's in here now
Jun 16 18:11:25 <regedit>	oh wow what a coincidence
Jun 16 18:11:33 <regedit>	TJ-: hello!
Jun 16 18:12:04 <histo>	regedit: you can /whois username
Jun 16 18:15:42 <regedit>	TJ-: yessr, how are you today :)
Jun 16 18:16:49 <regedit>	TJ-: so you seem to know a little bit about BIOS/UEFI
Jun 16 18:17:05 <regedit>	IrfanAlam__: it was me
Jun 16 18:17:50 <IrfanAlam__>	regedit: which file contains default index-file list ?
Jun 16 18:18:59 <TJ->	regedit: A little bit
Jun 16 18:23:48 <regedit>	TJ-: i'm still stuck at the part where i cant flash the bios... does it make sense that if i tear down my UEFI dual boot setup, and install an old msdos MBR OS, that my existing BIOS setup will suddenly reappear?
Jun 16 18:27:29 <TJ->	regedit: Hmmmm, doesn't make sense *unless* the firmware, in UEFI mode, is stuck in "FastBoot" mode. Can you get into Setup and check the state of that setting. You might find doing a complete factory default reset of the firmware settings will cure your issue (if you're lucky!)
Jun 16 18:29:56 <regedit>	TJ-: unfortunately i deleted manufacturer recovery partition, so can't restore initial manufacturer state...
Jun 16 18:30:26 <regedit>	TJ-: can i check this Fastboot setting from like, System Information in windows?
Jun 16 18:30:36 <regedit>	TJ-: or from something within ubuntu?
Jun 16 18:32:12 <TJ->	regedit: There may be a way in Windows 8 but it's a setting in the firmware and ought to be settable from there
Jun 16 18:32:15 <histo>	regedit: What type of computer is this?  make/model.
Jun 16 18:32:48 <regedit>	histo: Lenovo IdeaPad U410. The manufacturer released a BIOS update, but fails to flash...
Jun 16 18:33:06 <histo>	regedit: does it give an error when it 'fails to flash'
Jun 16 18:33:25 <regedit>	TJ-: which is problematic when i cannot possibly access said firmware setup panel... :'(
Jun 16 18:33:48 <TJ->	regedit: Have you checked that the installed firmware version *is* older than the version you're trying to install?
Jun 16 18:34:00 <regedit>	TJ-: yep, it is indeed
Jun 16 18:34:12 <regedit>	histo: i did notice something in windows logs, hang on leme check
Jun 16 18:34:33 <TJ->	regedit: I think you need to contact Lenovo support
Jun 16 18:34:38 <histo>	regedit: is there a reason you're updating the bios?  are you affected by an issue that the new one fixes?
Jun 16 18:35:11 <regedit>	TJ-: yep i'm trying some of that too, thus far they're sending me to geeksquad... what can they do that i and you can't?
Jun 16 18:35:37 <TJ->	regedit: If the PC will enter Setup if you try an MBR boot, can't you force that and then check for the FastBoot setting in the UEFI boot options?
Jun 16 18:35:57 <TJ->	regedit: Ahhh, I see... you need 3rd line support by the sound of it
Jun 16 18:36:20 <regedit>	histo: the update purpose says something about "...BIOS Setup inaccessible after using windows recovery" which sounded appropriate for me after installing a custom UEFI Windows + Ubuntu dual boot when i suddenly couldnt access bios setup anymore
Jun 16 18:37:05 <regedit>	TJ-: whadyou mean by 3rd line support
Jun 16 18:38:01 <regedit>	histo: it appears to amount to a newer version of the bios that just needs to be successfully flashed, but so far failing to do so
Jun 16 18:38:24 <TJ->	regedit: Making contact with the support engineers that really know what they're talking about :)
Jun 16 18:38:53 <TJ->	regedit: for an overview of the boot issues see the "Preparing to Install Linux" section here: http://www.rodsbooks.com/linux-uefi/
Jun 16 18:40:10 <histo>	regedit: how does dualbooting prevent you from getting into the bios
Jun 16 18:40:42 <regedit>	TJ-: so geeksquad geeks might actually know more about this stuff (than more "native" lenovo technicians) is what you're suggesting?
Jun 16 18:41:28 <TJ->	regedit: I have no idea, but usually the initial support response is from 1st line support agents who know next to nothing and work from scripts
Jun 16 18:42:16 <regedit>	this is the BIOS update in question http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/ideapad-u-series-laptops/ideapad-u410/downloads/ds101011
Jun 16 18:42:17 <TJ->	regedit: Whats' the state of play at the moment? The system will boot to Windows 8?
Jun 16 18:42:41 <regedit>	i am currently using the machine in question, it dual boots fine i can use Windows 8 and ubuntu
Jun 16 18:43:06 <TJ->	regedit: OK, but you can't get into Setup even from the manual boot selection menu?
Jun 16 18:43:27 <histo>	regedit: if it's working fine why are you trying to update the bios?
Jun 16 18:43:40 <regedit>	TJ-: the funny thing is - even the option that used to be there on the manual boot selection menu - disappeared!...
Jun 16 18:44:07 <regedit>	histo: i need to tweak some important BIOS settings, for example: enable HW Virtualization...
Jun 16 18:44:26 <histo>	regedit: then press fn+f2 while the machine is booting instead of trying to trigger the bios entry from windows
Jun 16 18:44:40 <TJ->	regedit: The option is playing hide-and-seek with you :) ... have you tried holding down the key even though the boot display doesn't display the Setup menu message?
Jun 16 18:45:04 <regedit>	histo: i've been doing the former all this time, wasn't even aware of the latter possibility - maybe i should try that?
Jun 16 18:45:21 <histo>	regedit: https://download.lenovo.com/consumer/mobiles/bios_readme_u310_u410.txt
Jun 16 18:45:36 <regedit>	yup fn+f2 frantically 1,480,469 times... and fn+12, and Novo key...
Jun 16 18:46:38 <regedit>	they tell you to enable UEFI, which is already the case by me
Jun 16 18:47:11 <TJ->	histo: We went through all that yesterday, regedit is stuck though since the only update option - from Windows - fails
Jun 16 18:48:03 <regedit>	here is an excerpt from the Event Log when trying to run the windows BIOS update: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11726153/
Jun 16 18:49:41 <TJ->	regedit: That's the Phoenix Technologies SecureCore Tiano updater, so we know Lenovo are using the Phoenix firmware now
Jun 16 18:50:50 <regedit>	TJ-: yep i could've told you that much. there is also another bootup screen i can access called the "setup splash" or something, which just seems to show some specs/details about the BIOS and system
Jun 16 18:51:12 <TJ->	regedit: That tool can take command-line options to over-ride certain features
Jun 16 18:51:47 <regedit>	TJ-: not sure it does, it ends with a press any key to continue and just power cycles
Jun 16 18:52:19 <TJ->	regedit: I have the Phoenix internal documentation on that tool.
Jun 16 18:52:53 <regedit>	TJ-: really? i really dont seem to be getting a command line. is there maybe a key combo to reach it?
Jun 16 18:52:58 <TJ->	regedit: We should really take this discussion to ##windows
Jun 16 18:53:06 <regedit>	TJ-: ok, heading there
Jan 13 17:34:00 <TJ->	tonyt: You can change permissions on registry keys using regedit 
Jan 13 17:34:32 <tonyt>	i looked in regedit . didnt see what i was looking for
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Jun 16 18:53:48 <regedit>	TJ-: hey
Jun 16 18:54:00 <TJ->	regedit: referring to your pastebin event log there's something interesting in the "Faulting application path", shown: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11726153/
Jun 16 18:55:47 <regedit>	TJ-: i somehow remember it being just WinFlash64.exe... but in that temp folder I find both
Jun 16 18:56:06 <regedit>	TJ-: what is interesting about it?
Jun 16 18:56:24 <TJ->	regedit: Notice the directory under "..\Temp\" is called "ExtactTemp\" which is a typo and should probably be "\ExtractTemp\" which makes me wonder if the tool has created both directories and some missing files are in the other. Run the tool and leave it on-screen so the files remain in the Temp directory, then use Windows Explorer to look at that "\Temp\" directory and see what you find if you sort the files by most-recently-changed-date
Jun 16 18:57:01 <regedit>	TJ-: dude, you have god eyes
Jun 16 18:57:41 <TJ->	regedit: Paying attention to the little details is the only way to go with digital stuff - 1 bit flipped and it can change the entire behaviour of a system
Jun 16 18:58:21 <regedit>	indeed :D i'm a programmer, i would know
Jun 16 18:58:43 <regedit>	TJ-: sadly though there is only one folder ExtactTemp (only misspelled version then)
Jun 16 18:59:16 <regedit>	TJ-: it has 4 files: 65CN99WW.cap, default.rsp, and those WinFlash executables
Jun 16 19:00:08 <regedit>	TJ-: i tried following manual flashing tutorials using that CAP file as the assumed firmware ROM, but is it? what kind of bios rom is CAP - the tutorials mention WPF files
Jun 16 19:00:56 <TJ->	regedit: I suggest you copy the entire contents of that directory another permanent directory (maybe under your user desktop for now) so you can easily access the file directly, and we might be able to perform some diagnosis on the updater
Jun 16 19:01:14 <regedit>	TJ-: yup, i have it all
Jun 16 19:01:40 <regedit>	TJ-: please do excuse me for a few minutes, need to run out, will be right back
Jun 16 19:01:50 <regedit>	and thanks muchly thus far
Jun 16 19:02:08 <TJ->	regedit: From the manual: "SecureCore Tiano WinFlash (version 1.3.65.0 and later) can load and flash BIOS CAPsule files"
Jun 16 19:03:33 <TJ->	regedit: I think I've just pinpointed why it crashes. "If the BIOS capsule file loads successfully, .... The system will restart and flash the capsule BIOS within an EFI shell environment"
Jun 16 19:18:43 <regedit>	TJ-: i'm back, reading...
Jun 16 19:22:27 <regedit>	TJ-: well i'm not sure if the CAP loads successfully, OR if it actually flashes from that EFI shell environemnt... all that happens is restarts, then black screen
Jun 16 19:22:55 <regedit>	TJ-: maybe i never waited long enough in that black screen? how long can it take? i think the longest i waited was maybe 4-5 minutes or so
Jun 16 19:23:00 <TJ->	regedit: FYI: I've downloaded and extracted that update file here and have it running/dying under wine. Did you notice there's a "TdkLib64.sys" file in the "...\Temp\" directory which the program also needs? if not, copy that over to the *same* directory where you copied the other files and try running "SctWinFlash64.exe" from that directory as Admin, in case there's a difference
Jun 16 19:26:15 <TJ->	regedit: I've put the documentation manual on my site in case you don't have it: https://iam.tj/projects/misc/WinFlash_SCT_UG.pdf
Jun 16 19:33:41 <regedit>	TJ-: thank you! and no i can't seem to find this TdkLib64.sys you speak of...
Jun 16 19:34:51 <TJ->	regedit: I found it in the "...\Temp\" directory when I sorted the files by date/time and it has the same creation time as the "\ExtactTemp\" directory
Jun 16 19:36:20 <regedit>	TJ-: C:\Users\Regedit\AppData\Local\Temp\ contains no such file :(
Jun 16 19:38:18 <TJ->	regedit: That's very ... intriguing. Also, I searched for the phrase "Faulting application name: SctWinFlash64.exe" and it seems you are not alone. Might be worth doing a web search yourself, see if either of us can find someone reporting a solution to this
Jun 16 19:38:50 <regedit>	TJ-: are you sure it's part of the package? can I get a copy of yours? maybe it's a wine-specific thing?
Jun 16 19:39:09 <regedit>	TJ-: i actually tried searching for that and google found nothing, what were your keywords?
Jun 16 19:40:19 <regedit>	TJ-: i do see results for WinFlash.exe, i thought it might not be same enough, but i guess it is
Jun 16 19:41:02 <TJ->	regedit: That exact phrase... first hit is this one: https://forum.toshiba.eu/showthread.php?67703-Satellite-pro-c660-21d-can-not-update-BIOS
Jun 16 19:41:42 <TJ->	regedit: In the "\ExtactTemp\" directory are both SctWinFlash64.exe and WinFlash64.exe
Jun 16 19:42:38 <regedit>	TJ-: right, and i seem to remember some of the Event Logs mention WinFlash64.exe (non-Sct)
Jun 16 19:43:15 <TJ->	regedit: also note the "default.rsp.bak" which is an accidental left-over from their testing but it reveals the set of command-line flags they pass to the WinFlash64.exe program from SctWinFlash64.exe
Jun 16 19:43:34 <TJ->	regedit: That file is text and quite interesting
Jun 16 19:44:14 <regedit>	TJ-: hm yes i guess that's what runs right away when i run the download
Jun 16 19:44:49 <TJ->	regedit: Yes. With that switch info you can now play about from the command-line too, which might reveal more information
Jun 16 19:45:12 <regedit>	TJ-: yup was just spinning up an administrator cms...
Jun 16 19:45:16 <regedit>	*cmd
Jun 16 19:46:00 <TJ->	regedit: I've uploaded my copies of the executables to https://iam.tj/projects/misc/Lenovo-WinFlash.zip
Jun 16 19:46:39 <regedit>	TJ-: thanks! hacking...
Jun 16 19:48:26 <regedit>	TJ-: might restart here, be back soon (hopefully...)
Jun 16 19:48:27 <TJ->	regedit: From those web searches: "...The solution to my problem was to turn off Data Execution Prevention (DEP) for WinFlash. Once I did that the modified BIOS flashed properly and I'm now up and running..."
Jun 16 19:48:39 <regedit>	TJ-: aha! le'me try..
Jun 16 19:48:59 <regedit>	wait how is DEP configuerd
Jun 16 19:49:59 <TJ->	regedit: see https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/875352#6
Jun 16 19:51:28 <regedit>	TJ-: hm popup error "You can not set DEP attributes on 64-bit executables."
Jun 16 19:51:43 <TJ->	regedit: Is there a system-wide option?
Jun 16 19:52:08 <regedit>	TJ-: not that i can currently see, looking around...
Jun 16 19:52:23 <TJ->	regedit: I've got another bisected kernel to boot-test so I'll be gone a few minutes at least
Jun 16 19:53:02 <regedit>	TJ-: no prob best luck, and thanks immensely again thus far
Jun 16 20:28:10 <regedit>	kruug: 7zip GUI fails to extract
Jun 16 20:28:23 <TJ->	regedit: any progress?
Jun 16 20:28:49 <regedit>	TJ-: oh hey welcome back! thanks for asking
Jun 16 20:29:23 <regedit>	TJ-: i'm wondering if i can execute that package in 32bit mode (is that a bad idea for flashing BIOS?) and that way i can disable DEP
Jun 16 20:29:37 <regedit>	TJ-: it says it's supposed to work also for 32bit
Jun 16 20:29:54 <TJ->	regedit: Had a power outage here; UPSes kept the racks powered but the oven with my dinner inside had to reset :)
Jun 16 20:30:28 <regedit>	TJ-: sounds like a kitchen of the future
Jun 16 20:30:39 <regedit>	smart home, internet of things
Jun 16 20:31:47 <TJ->	regedit: Not sure about 32-bit mode but as the tools all have "64" prominently in their titles I'd assume its intended for 64-bit
Jun 16 20:32:20 <regedit>	TJ-: well the manufacturer page claims the download is also for 32bit systems
Jun 16 20:32:46 <regedit>	TJ-: i'm guessing the exe extractor extracts a 32 / 64 bit version of the executables appropriately?
Jun 16 20:33:19 <regedit>	http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/products/laptops-and-netbooks/ideapad-u-series-laptops/ideapad-u410/downloads/ds101011
Jun 16 20:33:44 <TJ->	regedit: For dual use the executables are usually 32-bit anyhow. I didn't find any other files in the downloaded EXE
Jun 16 20:34:26 <regedit>	TJ-: how does a 64 version supposed to work on a 3sbit system then?
Jun 16 20:34:53 <kruug>	regedit: it's actually a 32-bit version
Jun 16 20:35:15 <regedit>	kruug: i can't disable DEP on it due to it actually being 64
Jun 16 20:35:37 <TJ->	regedit: 64-bit Windows has a 32-bit compatibility layer (WOW - aka Windows On Windows)
Jun 16 20:35:50 <regedit>	TJ-: what if i had a 32bit windows
Jun 16 20:36:00 <regedit>	TJ-: how would i be able to download and run lenovo's update
Jun 16 20:36:13 <regedit>	TJ-: the lenovo page claims it works on 32bit aswell
Jun 16 20:36:52 <regedit>	kruug: apparently, execute it :D
Jun 16 20:37:14 <regedit>	this flashing utility, or some process therein
Jun 16 20:37:58 <regedit>	i'm working on this theory [14:48] <TJ-> regedit: From those web searches: "...The solution to my problem was to turn off Data Execution Prevention (DEP) for WinFlash. Once I did that the modified BIOS flashed properly and I'm now up and running..."
Jun 16 20:38:46 <TJ->	regedit: in case it is useful, the exception code indicates a heap corruption
Jun 16 20:38:49 <regedit>	can someone with a 32bit system please try to download the package from lenovo? i want to see if it magically has a 32bit version
Jun 16 20:39:08 <TJ->	regedit: My extraction was 32-bit
Jun 16 20:39:41 <regedit>	TJ-: if they are 32bit executables, why does windows tell me they are 64bit and cant disable DEP?
Jun 16 20:42:08 <TJ->	regedit: see http://paste.ubuntu.com/11726776/
Jun 16 20:42:49 <regedit>	TJ-: i see PE32 but then x86_^$, what does that mean
Jun 16 20:42:59 <regedit>	er x86__64
Jun 16 20:43:16 <TJ->	regedit: it's a PE32+ format executable for 64-bit OS 
Jun 16 20:43:52 <regedit>	TJ-: would that execute as-is on a 32bit machine?
Jun 16 20:44:09 <regedit>	TJ-: would one be able to turn off DEP on that on a 32bit machine?
Jun 16 20:45:05 <TJ->	regedit: Not sure - Last time I worked with Windows was a decade ago :)
Jun 16 20:45:52 <regedit>	does anyone here have a 32bit Windows (preferably virtual) running? we need some help here please!
Jun 16 20:46:38 <regedit>	TJ-: how can we extract the contens of that package without running it?
Jun 16 20:47:09 <regedit>	octalgenesis: please stand by. also please tell me how i can help you in return, you have a medium-geek at your service :D
Jun 16 20:47:51 <TJ->	regedit: There are no other files in the dowloaded installer
Jun 16 20:48:17 <regedit>	TJ-: maybe they judge by download HTTP request User Agent string?
Jun 16 20:49:12 <TJ->	regedit: here's the 'strings' output which captures the internal directory of that downloaded file: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11726817/ ... i have to go to dinner now
Jun 16 20:49:29 <regedit>	TJ-: cheers, thanks again!
Jun 16 20:50:11 <TJ->	regedit: No, don't over-complicate the issue. I think you need to chase up Lenovo and ask for 2nd or 3rd level support. Maybe note down all the conversations you've had on IRC over this and email that to support to show you've gone through hoops already
Jun 16 20:50:59 <regedit>	TJ-: roger that, thanks
Jun 16 20:52:03 <TJ->	regedit: I've pastebinned everything from my logs: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11726833/
Jun 16 20:52:28 <regedit>	TJ-: just for info sake, how do i extract the installer without running it?