* slangasek waves
--> infinity (adconrad@loki.0c3.net) has joined #ubuntu-meeting-2
* infinity is very not here today.
<mdeslaur> infinity: uh, meaning?
<infinity> mdeslaur: Mentally, I mean.  Completely checked out and concentrating on other things.
 mdeslaur: But I'm clearly present. :P
<mdeslaur> I see
 I hope other people show up, I really want to discuss what to do with docker
<infinity> We had long talks about it at the CDO sprint.
 But it would be nice if someone could summarize those on the list.
<mdeslaur> oh? interesting
<infinity> It's going to (likely) involve a "strong suggestion" from Mark, which may or may not result in a sabdfling if we don't all agree with said suggestion. :P
<mdeslaur> I keep thinking what would be nice is a pocket for stuff that is in a constant state of flux, for stuff that we want the latest upstream until the next LTS
<infinity> The ball's in the server team's court to write a sane proposal and throw it at us, however.
<infinity> mdeslaur: $series-volatile.
<mdeslaur> infinity: yes, just like that
<infinity> mdeslaur: But that really just shifts the problem.
<mdeslaur> well, it clearly sets people's expectations
<infinity> mdeslaur: And if it's software that will have lots of users, I don't see how it actually solves anything.
<mdeslaur> I don't think we're doing our users a favour by having an outdated docker that nobody is going to fix, security-wise
<infinity> mdeslaur: Stuff that's known volatile can't ship in the release/updates/security pockets at all, or we have to support two versions, old and latest.
<slangasek> right, I believe the consensus there was that, given the principles expressed it warrants a bit of an exception for docker; however we're currently waiting for the server team to follow through and express those same principles publicly for the TB to consider as a whole
<infinity> mdeslaur: So... You're just moving the package around to tag it differently with a tag no one will read. ;)
 mdeslaur: Unless volatile is opt-in, and then it will be vetoed by Mark because he wants docker and, say, firefox to be available by default without twiddling.
<mdeslaur> infinity: well, the tag means "you are going to get the latest here, until the next LTS, with no promises of abi compatibility, or stability"
 unless we don't mind doing that for certain packages in the regular archive
<infinity> mdeslaur: Sure, I'm saying that if it's in the default sources.list, no one will pay attention to where apt got it from.  But meh.
<mdeslaur> such as, for example, docker
<infinity> mdeslaur: We already do it for firefox, but I always trot out firefox as the evil exception that should do the exact opposite of setting the rule.
<mdeslaur> the kicker is the "supported for 5 years"
 upgrading to the latest and greatest for 5 years is IMHO unachievable
<slangasek> the docker package is in universe, however, so there's no actual support guarantee anyway?
<mdeslaur> true
 and what about stuff like maas?
<infinity> MaaS can't even seem to keep the promises they made to me a year ago.
 So, we'll see. :P
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<mdeslaur> exactly :)
* stgraber waves
<mdeslaur> hi stgraber!
<infinity> stgraber: That was a quick flight...
 stgraber: I assumed you were doing something involving oceans.
<mdeslaur> stgraber: you missed out a few words about docker